Hi Guys
How is comment of Lemania Ca.5100??
Terence
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terence
新進會員   |
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Papageno
資深會員   |
發表於: 星期日 2003-06-15 16:42
轉貼一篇原載於timrzone的文章,我覺得很有幫助,有點長,請慢慢看....
Differences between Valjoux 7750 and Lémania 5100 On the public forum this question appeared and after I had written an extensive reply I thought that this might be of a more general interest and therefore qualify as a bulletin board post. : 1. What’s the different between the two of them? Both can be easily distinguished already from the watch's dial: The Lémania does not have a minutes counter subial, since it is counting the minutes with a separate hand from the central axis (mostly it has an airplane-like pointer at its end). Additionally there is a 24-hour subdial at the 12 o'clock position. Technically the specifications are as follows: Lémania 5100 - built since 1974, 28.800 A/h, 31mm diameter, 8.25mm height, 17 jewels, 48h power reserve. It is relatively simply built with many plastic parts, even wheels. ETA/Valjoux 7750 - produced since 1973, 28.800 A/h, 30mm diameter, 7.9mm height, 25 jewels (original version had only 17), 46h power reserve. The Valjoux is available in several subversions, most prominent one of them is 7751 with full calendar, moonphase and 24h indication. : 2. I know that the Valjoux 7750 is more popular so to speak but why? is it better than the Lemania? Since the Valjoux has incorporated fewer (or even no) plastic parts and is generally the more costly construction it also used to be more expensive and has been accepted to be the "better" movement for quite a time. But the Lémania 5100 has its group of avid fans, especially because due to its simplicity it is considered to be the more rugged (or "military") movement, just like the famous soviet tanks in WW II, the T-34, which was very simple, maybe even "primitive", but not to beat. This is the main reason why the Lémania 5100 is so popular in "military-style" sports watches like Fortis, Tutima, Sinn and some others: Not only is it more easy to read under busy conditions (its large minute counter is indicating 60 minutes and is legible far easier than the small 30-minutes counter hand of other chronographs), but it is extremely dependable and will work under all conditions. About a year ago the production of the Lémania should be stopped, but due to fierce protests of the 5100-community continued, but at a far higher price, so chronographs equipped with the Lémania now often are more expensive than those with the Valjoux movement. Revue Thommen for instance stopped the production of its fine Airspeed chonograph and replaced its original 5100-equipped series with the Model II with the Valjoux movement. : 3. According to your personal opinion (or fact) which one is better It depends: If I want a sportive military watch, I would prefer the Lémania, it is easier to read and more rugged (I would buy either the Tutima NATO-watch or the more dressy Eberhard Chronomaster), but otherwise I would personally not want so many plastic parts, even if Alain Silberstein is proving what can be done with plastic in the movement. On the other hand the Valjoux 7750-family is ubiquitous, the Lémania 5100 still being something rare and therefore special. : 4. Are there anymore good and reliable chronograph caliber? If you want integrated self-winding chronograph movements, there are only two other movements available: the Lémania 1352 (the same family as the Ebel 137, aka "Modulor"), used by Breguet (Type XX), Cartier ("Pasha") and Rainer Brand ("Carcassone"), theoretically there is still the Lémania 1355 which is featuring a central 60-minutes counter similar to that of the 5100, but I did not see any newer chronograph equipped with this movement and don't know if it is really produced. Finally there is the famous "Primero" made by Zenith, which still is the technically most advanced and most costly produced of those I mentioned. It is the only integrated self-winding chrono movement with column wheel and the only movement capable of measuring intervals of 1/10 sec. - a rather academic value. There are two other automatic chronograph movements, but both are technically modules, even if they don't look like it: The most exclusive and expensive one certainly is the Piguet 1185, a very compact construction which is found only in some high-priced watches, most notably the Blancpain 2100 chronograph and its Flyback/Air Command derivate. The second and now very popular one is the rather new ETA 2894-2 which is produced since 1996. The reasons for its popularity are easy to discover: It is very compact (28.6mm diameter, 6.1mm height) and can therefore be used in smaller watches, too. Then it makes possible a more attractive dial layout with the subdials at 3, 6, and 9. This symmetrical layout is called "Tricompax"-layout, named after a famous chronograph made by Universal Genève, it looks more harmonical than the left-weighted Valjoux and Lémania layouts. Additionally it has a date indication between 4 and 5 o'clock, which does not sacrifice a number (Ebel and Zenith also have this layout) and which is directly under the dial surface. Normally modular chronograph movements have the chrono module on top of the basic movement. The date indication is a function of the basic movement, so it lies one layer beyond the chrono module and the dial. The result is a small "tunnel" through which you have to view at the date window, of course this is a less than ideal solution and very often the date is not legible. The new ETA module has the date ring directly beyond the dial surface and therefore is more legible. You find this movement everywhere, even in very expensive (IMO sometimes too expensive) chronographs: The Cartier "Pasha C", Ulysse Nardin "Marine Chronograph", Chopard "Mille Miglia", Hublot "Navy", but also in cheaper ones, like Eterna, Nivrel, Omega ("Dynamic Chrono"), TAG Heuer "6000 Chronometer-Chronograph" and Raymond Weil "Parsifal". Additionally there exist many other modular chronograph movements, principally you can combine every basic movement with a chrono module, which are mostly designed and produced by specialists like Dupraz. |
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terence
新進會員 |
發表於: 星期日 2003-06-15 23:12
Dear Papageno
Thank You For your imformation, do you know Lemania Ca5100 lifespan is how long? How to maintain? How often to service the watch? If the watch is rarely worn, will it affect the movement? Thank You. Terence |
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Papageno
資深會員 |
發表於: 星期一 2003-06-16 00:10
terence兄,
你的問題,我沒有看過任何相關的討論文章,不好意思。 倒是Lemania 5100要停產的消息傳了好幾次,會不會影響日後的維修或零件供應,我沒有idea,雖然使用這機心的手表不算少。 |
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Papageno
資深會員 |
發表於: 星期一 2003-06-16 00:19
terence兄,
再轉貼一篇來自timezone的文章,多少可以帶來多的訊息,原文有機芯照片,但我只貼純文字的部份。 Everything you never wanted to know about the Lemania 5100 Not pretty but rare Recently, the spectacular rescue of a caliber was achieved. A year ago, Nouvelle Lemania decided to stop production of the chronograph caliber 5100 that because of its extraordinary precision and sturdiness, is primarily used for military and space travel purposes. The decision had two reasons: First of all, the simply built 5100 didn't fit in the demanding production philosophy of a reputable manufacturer. Secondly, the tools to make the movement were in need of restoration after 20 years of production. These needed investments couldn't be justified in relation to the sales to their main buyers, Fortis, Sinn and Tutima, and their other users, Paul Picot and Alain Silberstein, especially not at the current price. Especially the first three insisted on production continued as because the movement is unique in fulfilling the required specifications of the militaries. The 5100 is the only chronograph movement that, due to its construction, can withstand high shocks without the sweep second-hand stopping, as the chronograph functions are powered directly and not through friction (?). Additionally, it can withstand vertical acceleration of up to 7 g, without the accuracy decreasing noticeably. Its robustness is also legendary, the movement forgives hard blows and has very few claims for servicing. Its extraordinary accuracy is consistent over a long period and the intervals between required servicing are long, 4-7 years are usually quoted. The backside of the medal is the simple and not very attractive construction of the movement. Like most simple wrist-watch calibers or old alarm-clock movements, it's a pillar assembly (?). That means, the plates and bridges are screwed together by small and thin pillars, instead of having a terrace-like (?) design. This way, many easy to make stamped pieces can be used instead of having to mill them out of full material. But that's not all, the watch technicians from L'Orient didn't even shrink back from using plastic parts which at that time were regarded as being progressive and economical. It was the time of the Tissot Research 2100, a watch who's entire movement was made out of glass-fiber reinforced plastic. Both date rings and their cams (?) are made out of plastic. Additionally, two bow-shaped fitting rings on the sides that hold parts of the winding system and are supposed to dampen shock to the rotor, are made of plastic. It's great news that the 5100 will continued to be built, but the price the companies will have to pay will nearly double to 400 francs (300 US-$) from previously 230 francs (170 US-$). Regarding the movement in detail, the 5100 offers some constructive specialities. The navette-type chronograph mechanism can be found between the dial and the base-plate and not as usually between the base-plate and the winding system. The central rotor that winds through a reducing gear (?) isn't, as usual, mounted on rubies or ballbearings but runs in a hard-metal sleeve (?). The central gear before the rotor bearing transfers the torque to a pawl wheel heeeeeeelp !!!). The leaf spring that is attached to the rotor then functions as a ratchet pawl (?). From details like these, it becomes clear that the Lemania 5100 follows a very antiquated design that is, in spite of its simplicity, very efficient and reliable. The clutch wheel (?) is also made out of plastic, another tribute to rational production. The spring barrel is noticeably large, proof for a healthy dimensioning of the parts, something that's found throughout the 5100's entire construction. The balance turned out surprisingly large too for a hi-beat movement running at 28'800 bph. For the fine regulation, the proven Triovis is used which uses less space than the conventional system. Technical specifications Lemania 5100 chronograph movement: Chronograph movement with automatic winding system, navette type coordination of the chronograph functions Runs at 28'800 bps, Glycadur balance, Nivorox spiral, Triovis fine regulation system, Kif shock reflector. Hight: 8.2 mm, diameter: 31.0 mm, weight: 21 g, introduced in 1978. Has been or is still used in chronographs from Omega (Speedmaster IV), Sinn, Fortis, Tutima, Alain Silberstein, Paul Picot, Orfina, Porsche Design and Tissot, offered with chronograph certificate from Sinn. Characteristic features: Centrally located minute hand for the chronograph function, 24 h indication, 12 hour counter. Copyright Chonos, Ebner Verlag Ulm, 1998 Copyright © 1998, Power Reserve Inc., All Rights Reserved |
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terence
新進會員 |
發表於: 星期一 2003-06-16 12:30
Dear Papageno
Thank you for your imformation again, because i have already ordered one a used Alain Silberstein watch that is year 1995 like brend new. The watch is in very good condition( That is what my sister told me, she went to the shop to check the watch for me, because i am in Singapore now, and i will not go back Taiwan next few months) That is why i ask about Lemania Ca5100 movement. Thank you !!! Terence |
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Papageno
資深會員 |
發表於: 星期一 2003-06-16 12:55
terence兄,
Alain Silberstein在台灣的訂價偏高,新加坡應該好很多。 我個人的偏見: 1.碼錶機芯的運動表,我不會選擇非新品,因為這種機心很容易因為使用不當而出現損害。 2.Alain Silberstein的設計算蠻fancy的,但在時間的辨視上,或許不是這麼理想。 3.用Lemania 5100機芯的錶款,厚度很難不超過14mm,如果尺吋規劃不當,相對比例會顯得很奇怪,我之所以曾經考慮過Sinn 142,就是因為比例看起來相對正常的緣故。 所以,我建議你看過實錶並稍稍把玩一下,再做決定,會比較保險些,如果已經下訂或付款了,就別想太多,快樂的享受你的新玩具吧。 |
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terence
新進會員 |
發表於: 星期一 2003-06-16 13:13
Dear Papageno
Thank you for your advice, that's what i worried about. Terence |
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訪客
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發表於: 星期一 2003-06-16 22:53
Terence,
Are you interested in this watch: http://www.watchking.com.tw/product.asp?no=248 It looks nice. |
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terence
新進會員 |
發表於: 星期二 2003-06-17 08:54
Hi
This is the one that i hvae already ordered, i like it very much. Thank you very much!!! Terence |
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